Kucinich criticizes Israel. [It's about time someone did.]

He also wants a UN probe. From The Hill:

Kucinich said the perpetrators of attacks against Israel should be brought to justice, but that Israel “cannot create a war against an entire people in order to attempt to bring to justice the few who are responsible.” “All this was, and is, disproportionate, indiscriminate mass violence in violation of international law,” Kucinich said in a statement. “Israel is not exempt from international law and must be held accountable.”

I admire Dennis Kucinich for speaking out and raising the questions that many of us have been silently pondering, namely: has this action been a proportionate response to a series of unfortunate events?

This whole situation makes me question what democracy is. What "justified retaliation" means. What terrorism means. Who is right and who is wrong. Why can't we feel compassion for Palestinians without people shouting, "But what about Israelis!" in our faces. And vice versa. Compassion for one side does not negate support for the other.

It has been said that we are all stuck in the web of injustice, whether we are those who starve or those who feast. Peace can never be achieved when there is a constant threat of violence against innocent civilians from both sides.

My thoughts are with all those who have been affected by this tragic situation, especially the innocent victims who had no choice.

—Stefania Pomponi Butler

Comments

[Scheherazade]

Thank-you, thank-you, thank-you for your compassion. When the bombing started, I looked at my three little muslim girls, and thought: no mother, muslim, jewish, christian, atheist, whatever, should ever have her children taken away by violence. Essentially, sometimes when I think about the I/P issue, it is almost as though both sides feel that their children are more important, and the other side's children are disposable, mere "collateral". Killing other people should never be an option in solving disputes. Never. I pray for every mother, jewish, muslim, or otherwise, who has lost children in this conflict.

Shame on those who have murdered, on either side, in pursuit of their goals. Peace can never come about with rockets, guns, bombs and tanks. Surely we as a species have evolved beyond that.

[Summer]

This is why Kucinich was my first choice to be President during the primaries.

[Julie Pippert]

The "scorched community" approach without regard for "collateral damage" is heartless. The economic collapse strategy was nearly inhumane, and to add a blast and blitz attack on top of that---despite the clear and inexcusable justification of the other side starting it---is not going to lead this situation anywhere good. The "it's us or them" philosophy has long been at play and undermined, I believe, even the reluctant ceasefires. With Netanyahu back in play, I am not surprised at this, but I am shocked by the ferocity. i think the US has long given slack to Israel, and while I have sympathy and understanding for the plight, it is a mixed and divided sympathy and understanding. I have friends on both sides of the border, both sides of the issue. I understand and appreciate Kucinich's criticism and think the US needs to engage in more constructive criticism of that nature.

[Gunfighter]

I'm not sure I can agree with Brother Kucinich on this one, Stefania.

I have never been a fan of Israel. I happen to believe that Israel, like all middle eastern nations, is no friend of the United States, no matter how tight some of our ties are, and no matter the bullshit line about Israel being a democracy. Israel is no more a democracy than the United States was when certain people couldn’t vote based only on what they looked like.

Having said that, I must also say that "proportionate response" in a fight is the province of people who have never been in a real fight.

If you punch me, and I do as my faith teaches me, and turn the other cheek... and you punch me again, I think that I have done due diligence in trying not to be the aggressor. If you punch me a third time, I'm not just going to punch you back, but I am going to do my level best to kill you.
Yes, kill you.

You might not think that is measured or proportionate, but I am here to tell you that when I hurt you so badly in response to your blows, that you wish you’d never been born, you’ll probably wise up to the fact that it isn’t smart to attack someone who didn’t attack you.

You see, measured response makes sense in a strategic briefing, but it doesn't mean a bleeding thing when your enemy is lobbing missiles… or punches at you. In a fight, you do what you have to do… whatever that is, to clobber your opponent, and make sure he stays clobbered.
The sad thing is that some people never know enough to stay down when they have been beaten.

In this instance, that would be Hamas.

Again, not defending Israel here, as much as I am suggesting that "measured response" get's a little skewed when the exercise is no longer academic.
No sympathy for Hamas.

None.

Israel was clearly, with malice aforethought, provoked. Unlike the United States in Iraq, Israel had a right to defend itself from attack. An attack on a sovereign nation isn’t a police matter. We shouldn’t whinge too much when Hamas is getting pounded because of their own efforts.

[JCK]

Hear! Hear! What is going on is vile and we need to speak up!

[Julie Pippert]

Bill I hear what you're saying but on the flip side, Hamas and Palestine were provoked by what Israel did. The Hamas attack did not come out of nowhere; it, too, was retaliatory. So your argument works to both justify and indict both sides.

Which leads us back to punitive and killing measures do not lead anywhere good.

Palestine was slowly starving to death because of Israel's shutdown.

I'm going to guess if your life or, more, your children's lives, are threatened, you're going to be preemptive. Yes?

There is no right here IMO. But in this case, staying down was NEVER going to be enough. I believe the goal is more than that. And people do not simply give up. Israel doesn't want them defeated, they want them eradicated, and I believe the US agrees, never mind how many (over 300, including children, so far) it takes down with it.

I get what you're saying---I really do.

But it tends to lead to Hiroshima, KWIM?

[Gunfighter]

Julie, no doubt you are correct... but really, Hamas isn't throwing rockets because it thinks that the people will be better fed as a result. That just doesn't make any sense. Do they believe that throwing rockets is all they can do? Apparently.

Violence doesn't frequently lead to a good place... but sometimes it's all you've got. I'd say that's true on both sides of this issue. Sometimes a violent reaction is the only thing that makes people listen. I'd like to pretend that we, as humans are above that, but I don't deal in self-deception. The only thing that will keep most people in line when they don't want to be kept, is a swift, sharp, shock.

Truthfully, this could be much worse than it is.

As for the United States not caring about the Palestinian people... we don't. Not as a nation we don't. Think about it. Americans usually only care about non-white people when there is something to be had in return for said care. The Palestinians have no oil. They have nothing. On top of that, they are Muslims. On top of THAT, they hate us as much as we hate them. No, I don't mean you... or me... but we as a nation have no more love for those people than they have for us.

As for Hiroshima... I'd say that worked pretty well, wouldn't you?

[Jessica Gottlieb]

Not to interject facts or anything wacky like that...

Hamas runs Gaza and I recall a global community who was unwilling to negotiate with terrorists.

Hamas also has a habit of hiding their terrorist leaders in the skirts of their women, both literally and figuratively. If your soldiers are hiding in a school, guess what? The school goes.

Further, the "shocking pictures" that are floating around the internet of bombed out streets were taken 5 years ago and aren't due to Israeli fire.

They've been firing rockets into Israeli homes for the past few months and now they're boo hooing when the rockets come back at them.

I think you'll be embarassed looking back when you've aligned yourself with evil.

[Stefania/CityMama]

Jessica Gottlieb--Wow. I sure hope you aren't accusing me of "aligning myself with evil." Not to interject facts of anything wacky like that, but Israel isn't exactly an innocent party in all of this. If they were why would there be such a strong, worldwide public outcry to what they are doing? The only real victims here are the innocent people on both sides who are caught up in this mess. As I said in my post, compassion for one side does not negate support for the other. Wish I could see the world as black and white as you do. Unfortunately, I can't.

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Shame on those who have murdered, on either side, in pursuit of their goals.